READER feedback ON"videos: Vote Flipping on contact-displays in WV"(77 Responses up to now...)
comment #1 [Permalink]... jacki penny noted on 10/27/2008 @ 8:forty seven pm PT...
i ought to've neglected it, however i can't discover the document on vote flipping in Mo.
remark #2 [Permalink]... Jeannie Dean (no longer in) FL-13 spoke of on 10/27/2008 @ 9:14 pm PT...
comment #3 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman talked about on 10/27/2008 @ 10:02 pm PT...
Jacki Penny -
data on MO as protected in this document: https://bradblog.com/?p=6559
simply wanted to permit you to be aware of that Missourians for sincere Elections is within the procedure of confirming 5 separate reviews of vote flipping --- from Democrat to Republican --- on the iVotronic machines which are the simplest potential the Board of Elections is providing for in-grownup absentee balloting at its headquarters in Maplewood [St. Louis County, MO].--Cynthia Richards
Working to get extra details, verify on those, however buried with experiences coming from all over the place, together with vote flips in Houston on Hart InterCivic machines and in Nevada on Sequoia machines.
Doing my most suitable to keep up right here
comment #four [Permalink]... jacki penny referred to on 10/27/2008 @ 10:fifty two pm PT...
thanx 4 the resource, Brad. (i know u r swamped)will still are trying 2 access this information later as Missourians for sincere Elections is down temporarily.
as an election choose in Jackson Co., Mo. i have been informed that "no digital instruments, except for those offered by way of the election board" (i.e. a pager, cellphone & pda) are allowed within the polling areas in our county. additionally that as judges, we are to ask that every one voters put away their cellphones or other contraptions upon getting into to vote.
i used to be assured that here is because of inflicting a disruption at the polls (being noisy & causing confusion) or feasible electioneering- nothing else. it should be difficult 4 anyone 2 video their voting adventure as soon as interior.
remark #5 [Permalink]... Bamboo Harvester talked about on 10/27/2008 @ eleven:24 pm PT...
Wilburrr... ~ For the life of me! ... I cannot take into account / no fucking comprendo ... WHY the fuck you would even ought to calibrate anevm (Evil balloting desktop) ... ya do not calibrate calculators, computer systems, answering machines, telephones and so forth. ... one of the merits of digital devises is that they requires little or no calibration. a big WTF ?
I desire a person might splain to me exactly what all this calibration crap is all about & what's that module he plugged in ? i may guess the reply is it truly is proprietary... govt privilege ... fucks with the vigour of the president!
comment #6 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman pointed out on 10/27/2008 @ 11:25 pm PT...
i might predict no less from my "buddy" Charlene Davis in Jackson County, MO. (She is, after all, the one who helped arrest a voter for attempting to vote with a perfectly prison non-image id within the contemporary basic! And the one who ran to Fox "news" with the bullshit about being buried by fraudulent ACORN voter registrations per week or so in the past, even if ACORN hadn't accomplished any registration work in Kansas city seeing that August!)
i will best hope that folks arise for themselves, and the privateness of their personal ballot, to shoot the sort of incidents that they've. it's on your nation.
I even have video taped my own voting experience out right here in los angeles, and when the computing device printed four out of 12 of my votes incorrectly, it was that cell video that helped the Registrar to check what had long gone wrong with the laptop voting gadget.
it be certainly allowed in CA, and OH SoS Jennifer Brunner told me for my part that it was allowed in OH, as smartly. haven't determine on that point with the MO SoS, although. Hope you're going to! (don't have faith Charleton Davis!)
comment #7 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman noted on 10/27/2008 @ 11:30 pm PT...
happy to splain. "Calibration" is needed, as I bear in mind it, well-nigh, to tell the computer which candidate is below which a part of the screen. To map the touch-delicate layer to the picture screen.
As to plugging in cartridges, after an election has already been programmed, neatly it really is simply frickin' insane, ought to be illegal, and only one of the causes i'm livid that the Democrats are sitting returned and doing absolutely nothing about this concern, and enabling both election officers and voting enterprise personnel to entry these election-programmed machines during this means.
it's insane, knowing how effortless it's to online game these techniques in precisely that method.
comment #eight [Permalink]... Bamboo Harvester said on 10/27/2008 @ eleven:34 pm PT...
Hmmm... i ponder if they make a lapel digital camera that attaches to a cell phones ... Or only a lapel digicam recorder.
comment #9 [Permalink]... Bamboo Harvester observed on 10/27/2008 @ 11:57 pm PT...
I do not like how they use the terminology.To me that would be loading a setup or job parameters or a patch plan. And being in the digital domain it should by no means need to be completed once more except of reminiscence failure, election change or static and if it did screw up it would trade some assess sum price and screen an error message. IMO
remark #10 [Permalink]... TEDEGER mentioned on 10/28/2008 @ 3:forty four am PT...
it be all within the programming! My Grandson-in-law, who is an authority programmer, says, "give me five minutes by myself with ANY of those machines, and i'll pick Mickey Mouse to any workplace in the land!" He also says "I do not even have to contact the machines! The mischief can also be finished remotely!" (i hope he is crammed with prunes, but having seen one of the issues he can do, i think that the certainty is even worse than he says.) There are loads of Hackers available who like to exploit "Weaknesses" within the gadget - and when the machines are at the start programmed to be vulnerable to ONE class of hacking, other types become easier. We may wake up on Nov. 5 to discover that Nader received the election!
comment #eleven [Permalink]... Floridiot referred to on 10/28/2008 @ four:04 am PT...
One element you can take to the financial institution...it won't be Nader
remark #12 [Permalink]... Kmac talked about on 10/28/2008 @ 6:02 am PT...
i would presume that the Democrats are doing some thing about the complaints but don't make it a public announcement. 1) it will fire up the conspiracy concept and make them seem paranoid 2) it could make them seem like terrible activities 3) they have a far better probability of attending to the backside of it if no one knows it's being investigated. definitely hope i'm right in my assumption!
remark #13 [Permalink]... Floridiot talked about on 10/28/2008 @ 7:forty two am PT...
KMAC, i might assume that your #three bet is appropriate, from what I've gathered they have been attempting off and on to catch them for at the least 15 years if now not longer.that you would be able to only capture them taking the cookies out of the jar each 2 years or 4.
Hope the Spoon is in with them this time
remark #14 [Permalink]... Craig Hackl mentioned on 10/28/2008 @ 7:49 am PT...
i am a utility examine engineer (15+ yrs) in Seattle; I actually have labored for MS and every most important software producer in this enviornment - the realm's core of utility construction.
here is the bottom line: the features associated with the voting system are utilized each day on any industrial web site you care to consult with. each time you click, "adequate" vs. "Cancel", this expertise is utilized efficiently. The notion that there is some secret about a way to safely verify and ship standard utility like here is past it appears that evidently ridiculous - it takes a special want to screw up an easy software like a vote catcher.
This entire hubbub is blatant voter fraud and each American ought to do all they can to go after these criminals.
comment #15 [Permalink]... Michael from WV talked about on 10/28/2008 @ eight:13 am PT...
As a West Virginia resident who voted early, i will be able to guarantee that I even have been on desirable of this difficulty. After the problems in Jackson, Putnam, and Ohio Counties have been stated final week, I spoke with the Secretary of State's office soliciting for that she order all county clerk's to recallibrate the machines day by day all over early balloting. The Secretary graciously issued such an order.
Now, in Ohio County, the Clerk has taken it upon herself to personally recallibrate the machines day after day. in addition, they're provided pencils with erasers to each and every voter who comes into to vote early. And, by using the eraser tip, the votes seem to be extra correct. The clerk ensured me that these pencils will also be obtainable to all voters next Tuesday at each voting precinct.
unluckily, the Secretary of State has no longer yet ordered all county clerks in WV to observe the identical formulation. So, I simply spoke with the Elections Division in Charleston, and requested that the Secretary order pencils be offered to all voters in all counties. I actually have under no circumstances been cautious or suspicious of Secretary ireland, and even after this, I don't have any cause to doubt her judgment. I also believe that the Secretary will take my tips. be concerned not, friends, i will be able to dwell on proper of this story.
remark #sixteen [Permalink]... steve referred to on 10/28/2008 @ eight:38 am PT...
here is insane. As a dressmaker of industrial control computer systems, i used to be intrigued by way of HAVA, considering (in 2002) i might build the enhanced vote casting mousetrap, except I heard Diebold turned into gonna do it and that they'd without doubt beat my time-to-market. Man, if I knew then what i do know now i'd be wealthy and we wouldn't deserve to be right here.
Anyway, using the be aware "calibration" is misleading. The only part that would want that would be the touch-delicate part of the monitor, to align it physically with what it became reading logically. If the "straight-birthday celebration" button works, the best way the wrong candidate could then be auto-chosen can be with the aid of a bug or, um, "function".
Now, if "calibration" really ability "configuration", it might be easy for the "straight-birthday party" choice to be informed that Nader is a Democrat (as an example) and would be a big certification gap, too, not regarding any firmware difficulty or certification.
remark #17 [Permalink]... pass over skeptic spoke of on 10/28/2008 @ eight:forty two am PT...
On the ESS machines, the serial number is at the bottom of the laptop (facing you when you are voting)on the left hand aspect. Ours delivery with a "V" followed with the aid of 7 numbers.
ASK TO VOTE PAPER!!!! The ballot worker's had been told to no longer inform voters they have got this option - why, I do not know, I believe it be terribly wrong to now not wholly inform voters of every option. however please do not yell on the ballot employees (that might be me). We are attempting to do every thing we will to make this election run smoothly, and we are just as worried as you are if the machines are not running correctly. poll people are there to assist, not avoid your vote. You will also be assertive with out being snotty about it.
remark #18 [Permalink]... CharlieL stated on 10/28/2008 @ 9:00 am PT...
let's have a look at...
option 1, the Democrats are unbelievable, oganized, take into account Election Fraud/Theft, and are working in secret and conserving the secret (once they can not even keep a haircut secret), and are doing every little thing they could to guarantee a good election by means of working non-stop "at the back of the scenes."
choice 2: The Democrats are idiots who are going to roll over and play useless. They suppose they could beat election fraud with large numbers, and a "floor online game," now not realizing that many of their "huge numbers" have already been purged from the vote casting rolls or can have their ballots "spoiled," or will have their large number of votes "flipped."
Hmmmm. contact choice.
Given Occam's razor, I feel i'd need to go with #2.
comment #19 [Permalink]... Savantster talked about on 10/28/2008 @ 9:19 am PT...
neatly, if they could make ATMs that do not should be 'recalibrated' all of the time, i'd suppose they can make balloting machines that do not should be perpetually recalibrated.
I had to calibrate my Nintendo DS once.. as soon as. I had to calibrate my Nintendo Wi once.. once (my nephew determined to recalibrate as soon as, but did not need to, it did not aid his video game.. lol).
if they could make a laptop that offers you exactly what you press when it be banking, they definitely can do the identical with voting. on the grounds that anything unhealthy is going on throughout balloting however not with ATMs, we should still presume intentional misconduct.
comment #20 [Permalink]... the zapkitty noted on 10/28/2008 @ 9:fifty eight am PT...
be aware: When those that study election integrity speak out regarding the madness of using DRE's for anything as innately essential as elections we aren't being "luddites" or "hysterics"... we regularly tend to be geeks ourselves, definitely.
but no amount of simple, elegant coding (which is ignoring the proven fact that the manufacturers actually have a vested activity in producing the accurate opposite) no volume of "clean code" can override the fatal flaw of e-balloting:
computers determine their inevitable bugs (and malware etc is discovered) through evaluating the precise inputs with the actual outputs to peer in the event that they suit the expected outputs.
Even ATM's screw up and get infected and many others.and so forth... however a wise customer will have their bank statements and receipts (enter and output) convenient and the bank then makes the issue go away.
however the pollneeds to be secret, and the voter should not be in a position to prove how they voted. this is to give protection to us from voters promoting their votes and to offer protection to the voter from coercion. (it be now not a good idea having the individuals you are voting out of office or balloting to have reregulated comprehend exactly how you voted.)
So the enter of "vote" has to be secret and in DRE's this input is deliberately lost, and the voter does not, can't, have the slightest clue as to what the machine has basically achieved with the input... and any so-known as "paper trail" is simply an after-the-fact justification as untrustworthy because the machine that printed it.
here is not "luddism"... this is the fundamental acknowledgment that the tokens representing assistance that are used by way of the computer on the time the vote is taken are imperceptible with the aid of the voter... and after the vote count number the computing device can easily be made to lie like a rug all day lengthy about what it did with that vote.
computer systems are basic, trusting issues and are easily gamed by using the best artificial intelligences on the earth: people.
There isn't any escaping this simple fact: secure elections and e-vote casting are flatly incompatible and at all times had been.
Paper ballots with suitable ballot controls made the coexistence of each pollsecrecy and ballot authentication possible... now not as a result of they are "crude" or "primitive" ideas but because they preserve the tokens of voter interaction at a macroscopic level have been those keen people can hold a address on them... mainly advantageous as we are the ones normally competing to game the device anyway.
And paper ballots simply turned out to be some applicable tokens for the voting interplay, is all.
now is usually the time when some trusting soul unthinkingly screams "ENCRYPTION WILL keep US ALL" and leaps into the fray.... but I deserve to shut out this certain remark and get a beer before I continue.
consider free to bounce notwithstanding ... punji sticks are standing through and i shall return for cleanup...
comment #21 [Permalink]... greg0 pointed out on 10/28/2008 @ 10:06 am PT...
The votes are flipping from Democratic to Republican and the media continues to be asleep? This election should be heavily adjudicated, or may still be.The amazing minds at the back of the electoral fraud of the remaining decade should be tried on racketeering charges and sentenced to lifestyles in federal detention center. including the vote casting laptop executives.
remark #22 [Permalink]... Bamboo Harvester pointed out on 10/28/2008 @ 10:07 am PT...
I remember about a year in the past we were speaking about EPROM's and late Eprom deliveries (Erasable examine most effective reminiscence / firm ware)at the time i used to be under the idea the eproms contained the election setup or mapping of the screen...most likely these eproms are whats internal of the "Calibration module" ...BTW ~ the code on any of the eproms or examine best reminiscence can also be considered a part of the source code.
comment #23 [Permalink]... Bamboo Harvester referred to on 10/28/2008 @ 10:18 am PT...
I cant think over a slower use of computing vigor apart from fucking traffic signals ... an historic 286 or less can perform "this" evm characteristic snoozing while doing figure eights ... so speed of any variety is a shaggy dog story.
remark #24 [Permalink]... Floridiot talked about on 10/28/2008 @ 10:21 am PT...
comment #25 [Permalink]... nameless pointed out on 10/28/2008 @ 10:23 am PT...
people, here is typical home windows CE. They use normal calibration tables where offsets are used to modify physical registered touches to the common sense screen inputs.
read this remark time and again once again:https://bradblog.com/?p=6576#remark-370063
for those who opt for Straight Ticket, we must expect the touchscreen goes into it's application and selects all candidates. It does not register fake touches to faux you voted in a definite method.
There is no means calibration can also be blamed for Nader being selected beneath straight ticket. If I had to bet, this computing device is hacked to make it seem like Obama would get chosen after which McKinney or a person confirmed up and screwed up the selection. i might guess the GOP has framed Obama with damaged touchscreens.
remark #26 [Permalink]... Bamboo Harvester stated on 10/28/2008 @ 10:33 am PT...
Wilburrr... i'd use the pencil eraser on these fuckin evm's for concern of opting for up some contagious sickness from the gop skinflints that proceed ya . . .
comment #27 [Permalink]... anonymous mentioned on 10/28/2008 @ 10:38 am PT...
Watch the video once again.
It seems that he manually selected Nader, then presses straight ticket R, then Nader become not up to date. looks like a software computer virus when voting straight ticket with prior to now selected candidates.
might it's meant that approach?
comment #28 [Permalink]... Tom noted on 10/28/2008 @ 10:forty eight am PT...
digital balloting techniques aren't infallible. What if there's software that flips in the back of the screen (or a delayed flipping action), which looks good enough to the voter, but in idea flips during the manner of transmitting? ordinary satisfactory checks of machines in rotation, in each voting station could be a good suggestion to allay the fears of voters.
remark #29 [Permalink]... la58 referred to on 10/28/2008 @ 10:fifty two am PT...
I reside in Mich. and that i can be Precinct Inspector ( first time ). anyone has some hyperlinks on problems with paper ballots and scanners. thanks
comment #30 [Permalink]... Savantster noted on 10/28/2008 @ eleven:forty nine am PT...
i would have to wager that the "wrong decisions" displaying up aren't malicious, however in fact bad machines.
consider about it. in case you wanted to "steal votes", would you definitely supply them a chance to see it on the reveal? they would easily look at all of the current totals and keep their man (the Repub) slightly ahead, simplest in the returned floor the place you can not see it.
Votes come in slowly, and there's a reasonably even match between D and R.. each now after which a vote is put beneath R as a substitute of where it went, however you never see that. it be simply an increment of one of a few variables.. simply wrap it around the submission logic and do it after the "commit vote" button is pushed (or something affirmation button is pressed on the conclusion).
Making it so that you can _clearly_ see the flip would still probably require code, so why risk drawing consideration to yourself?
Of direction, both method.. seeing these problems demands public access to the source.. If no intentional code is discovered, the machines are listed as junk for no longer being able to register touches accurately.
both manner, we win..
remark #31 [Permalink]... Agent 99 stated on 10/28/2008 @ 12:09 pm PT...
From what I've heard about West Virginia, you can not ever guess this type of factor is rarely malicious. these coal barons are determined. and they on no account cease playing dirty.
comment #32 [Permalink]... Erin noted on 10/28/2008 @ 12:21 pm PT...
i'm at the start from Ohio, and after I heard about this, i noticed that the identical element had came about to me within the 2004 election, and then to my grandparents in the 2006 election. These machines have been made with the aid of Diebold. I unluckily at the time thought that it turned into just me, however i was very upset, and wasn't sure what to do. I needed to hit the Democratic candidate thrice earlier than it might work. And the equal had took place to my grandparents in 2006 with the senate seat of DeWine up towards Sherrod Brown.
When the 2006 election took place-- the precinct that I had voted in had modified their voting machines to whatever thing else. i wanted to know who they have been made by means of, and whereas they do make a checklist of the votes made on the desktop with a reciept printing on the aspect (that you can watch it record as you hit the buttons), I nevertheless have an argument with the electronic machines.
i will be able to vote in Pennsylvania this 12 months as a result of I currently moved for a job here, however the difficulty is rarely almost as new as everybody would want to accept as true with.
comment #33 [Permalink]... Jeannie Dean (no longer in) FL-13 stated on 10/28/2008 @ 12:46 pm PT...
thank you so a whole lot for taking such helpful motion in WV! massive forehead kisses and bags of pleasure to you for doing so.
I've just been tasked through Video the Vote to be the West Virginia outreach coordinator--questioning if you can provide me a call or shoot me an e-mail to talk about this extra.
jeannie dean: [email protected]
i would be delighted to hear from you.once again, thank you for being so seasoned-energetic on the floor there in WV. potential the realm to americans like me (us)...
comment #34 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman observed on 10/28/2008 @ 1:28 pm PT...
Michael from WV (#15) -
a) Thanks for what you are doing.
b) There is no means in hell that anyone may still be "recalibrating" machines throughout the election. That will be the simplest way to introduce a virus, or other malware onto those programs. They may still be taken out of carrier immediately. conclusion of story. And voters will also be given paper ballots.
c) examine others comments right here on the "calibration" nonsense, that fails to explain, for instance, Nader being chosen even after the straight party option is selected within the video seen above!
remark #35 [Permalink]... Diane in TX pointed out on 10/28/2008 @ 2:13 pm PT...
So what if I want to vote straight ticket on every race except the presidential one? i can do that on a paper ballot. wouldn't that account for the straight ticket/Nader "error"?
remark #36 [Permalink]... TomaHawk said on 10/28/2008 @ 2:51 pm PT...
The computer "paper trail" handiest facts HOW THE computing device RECORDED THE VOTE. It doesn't necessarily record HOW THE VOTE changed into really forged. There may still be an in depth printed receipt of the votes solid for the voter.
i will go to an ATM and get a detailed correct receipt.
i can go right into a regional convenience store and enter an order into a dre for distinct items. Sliced meats, facet dishes, sandwiches, etc. i can customize the sandwich toppings. Out of a whole lot of alternatives, I have by no means gotten a printed receipt of my order that didn't show my order precisely as I entered it for products, sizes and numbers. If a deli dre can do it, why can't the state operated vote casting machines do the equal?
comment #37 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman observed on 10/28/2008 @ three:38 pm PT...
TomaHawk pointed out:
The computer "paper trail" only facts HOW THE computing device RECORDED THE VOTE. It does not always list HOW THE VOTE became really solid.
in fact, to be somewhat greater genuine there, Tom, the "paper trail" does not always checklist how the desktop recorded the vote. The paper path can say one issue, and the machine can say an additional.
There should still be a detailed printed receipt of the votes cast for the voter.
in case you suggest a "receipt" so you might take home with you, then no, you do not desire that. that might lead to vote purchasing/promoting. and that's the reason why this enterprise is very different from an ATM or deli transaction. we've a secret ballot, so it must be accurate, and transparent so far as the means to assure that it become counted as the voter intended.
Printing out ballots or "paper trails" is no change for a hand-marked paper ballot which we comprehend reflects the intent of the voter. computing device printed ballots will also be flipped without the voter noticing (see Rice U.'s analyze the place two-thirds of voters who afflicted to verify their summary at the conclusion, did not note vote flips.)
comment #38 [Permalink]... DebbieKat noted on 10/28/2008 @ three:forty five pm PT...
We could awaken on Nov. 5 to locate that Nader gained the election!
Oh, if best. Sorry, however i am not very overjoyed with the duopoly nowadays. or not it's time to do away with their stranglehold. it will be sweet justice if a vote for McCain grew to become a vote for Nader.
remark #39 [Permalink]... the zapkitty noted on 10/28/2008 @ three:fifty three pm PT...
... TomaHawk observed...
"There may still be a detailed printed receipt of the votes cast for the voter."
since you really, really do not desire that... since you basically, in reality don't want Dick Cheney and every ceo on this planet realizing exactly how you simply voted towards their ideal pursuits.
since you in fact, really don't are looking to hear here: "best family you have got here. make sure to drop through my office with your receipt after the election."
comment #forty [Permalink]... karen from illinois referred to on 10/28/2008 @ 4:24 pm PT...
sighdear censor/nsa watcher,i desire there turned into a method for u to let me know simply how an awful lot information i'm allowed to supply earlier than i spend a half hour typing it up and u come to a decision not to post itwhat half didnt u like the day past?become it the new hampshire recount numbers from hillsborough county? on the republican side right here cities showed extra votes than votersamherstbedfordgoffstownmanchester 1manchester 4manchester 11nashua 6nashua 9dats appropriate 8 seperate locations pronounced a collective eighty one votes that had been bodily unattainable...turned into that what u didnt want printed?
what the hell..lets do the dem side nowadays tooin the brand new hampshire recount,in hillsborough county on the dem sos recount report the following areas said more votes than voters
antrimbrooklinedeeringgoffstownlitchfeildmanchester 1manchester 2manchester 11nashua 9
9 locations reporting a complete of sixty four unimaginable votes on the dem facet
yet i hear on the msm ovr and ovr how no true probs were proven within the nh recount and mccain may additionally make one other comeback there...lol
its additionally telling he's spending so plenty time in pa which has no paper to count number
remark #forty one [Permalink]... Lora said on 10/28/2008 @ four:32 pm PT...
What precise decent would having a printed receipt do? until the entire voters bought collectively and reconciled them all with the vote totals like assessments and deposit tickets with a financial institution observation, the receipt doesn't suggest a whole lot in the big scheme of who gained, does it? We know that what's printed out would not necessarily suit how the vote became counted. (See Sequoia and the NJ Snafu.)
comment #forty two [Permalink]... Sarah Manski pointed out on 10/28/2008 @ four:44 pm PT...
remark #forty three [Permalink]... karen from illinois mentioned on 10/28/2008 @ four:52 pm PT...
if it wasnt the hillsborough numbers then it have to of been my theory about the programs having a pre determined result and any vote that moves the number previous that result cannot be accepted by the computing device...at least not w/o an interior override(which prob has a physical tag also however it happens so quick peops havent observed it)
when jeanie dean caught them on digital camera in florida doing an override because reminiscence cards would not load into the counter,i accept as true with it was since the desktop couldnt accept those numbers as it already had as many obama votes because it essential for its pre decided outcomes
the most effective chamce the dems ought to win this presidential election is to bodily recognize the precincts,street through street,voter by using voter
i say this because if the vote is flipped in pa to provide mccain the win there,there should be a actual tag(an impossibble number)and finding it could be of the utmost urgency
its hard to be hopeful with the neo cons controling every little thing but obama was wise adequate to understand he had to win the caucuses to win the nomination so i am hopeful he is smart enough to grasp the presidential election will should be won in states with paper ballots and/or dem govs and sos
comment #44 [Permalink]... Lora stated on 10/28/2008 @ 5:33 pm PT...
Savantster suggests that the vote-flipping machines are accidental instead of malicious, since the real election fraud would be hidden.
Savantster might possibly be correct. These machines may well be the hidden fraud screw-ups....they were speculated to work in the back of the scenes, however...ooops!
Or, they is usually a dry run --- desensitize the general public to those little "miscalibration" mistakes that are all fastened so with ease, blame it on the voter --- then on election day they run with the real fraud and if anyone notices anything else it be simply a bit voter error or miscalibration, y'recognize?
remark #forty five [Permalink]... Jeannie Dean (not in) FL-13 said on 10/28/2008 @ 5:38 pm PT...
Karen! yes, correct on once more, as common. i've been following your predictions re: PA with an awful lot activity and dread. After our terrifying evaluation of the Manchester 5 numbers from the Diebold Op Scans, we learned that New Hampshire's machines experienced an error fee approximately 163 times more advantageous than the error expense allowed under federal Election legislation. (Bob Schulz, WTP NH Recount record @:http://www.opednews.com/...new_hampshire_vote_r.htm )
Inflated vote totals in some wards, bad vote totals in others. If it comes down to PA, God forbid, Karen--I know it can be complex that you can belly. Your submit election stats are at all times a lock, this premonitory warning may still supply us all hives.
Video backing up Karen's numbers from NH Machester 5 may also be discovered here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYz9O_SvIJI
remark #forty six [Permalink]... nameless observed on 10/28/2008 @ 6:36 pm PT...
again, even in the Nashua Ward 5 case, if people go to their polls after shut and get the precinct posted effects, it's going to make a change. try this in Ohio and NH. And it doesn't matter in PA, they have zero paper trail.
remark #47 [Permalink]... Bob younger stated on 10/28/2008 @ 6:37 pm PT...
"Savantster means that the vote-flipping machines are unintentional instead of malicious, because the actual election fraud would be hidden"
Savantster is wrong!!! If the vote flipping is occurring by accident simply as many machines may still be flipping votes from D to R as from R to D. The proven fact that this is now not ever the case tells anyone with a very good grip on likelihood idea that these flips don't seem to be occurring by accident. They definitely and really are going on by using design. There are smart thieves and dull thives. These thieves are certainly of the dull range!
comment #48 [Permalink]... the zapkitty pointed out on 10/28/2008 @ 6:fifty eight pm PT...
diverse states and counties... distinctive machines and administrators. distinctive fingers in the pie. difficult. each known case may well be as a result of incompetence and/or malice and/or incompetent malice.
by the point the sample becomes clearer in these organizations of instances that do come to be connected it will also be too late... ala Kerry's Cave-in re: Ohio in 2004.
remark #49 [Permalink]... steve referred to on 10/28/2008 @ 7:04 pm PT...
Bamboo Harvester (#23): Hah! You don't have any conception! The CPU in the model Princeton simply established is a Z80 (brought by way of Zilog in 1976), a miles eight-bit ancestor of the '286. it be as good a call as any, but even the lowly '286 is overkill!
that is, these machines don't seem to be rocket surgery.
ZapKitty (#20): lookup Ned Ludd. Luddites weren't in opposition t technology per se, simply the human affect know-how introduced: lack of professional labor, loss of product exceptional, and failure of local economies, all in provider to a rich bastard that could build a manufacturing facility and did not provide a fig about textiles. type of like what's happening between the us and China.
comment #50 [Permalink]... Jeannie Dean (not in) FL-13 mentioned on 10/28/2008 @ 7:21 pm PT...
correct, Bob young~! believe Feeney. Dumb and DRUNKER, even. reports from Bob Ney's secretary proven his ingesting the complicated-hootch beginning at 7:30 am.
Lil' hair of the dog to aid you swallow down that unconstitutional H.A.V.A. implementation? just a spoon filled with venim....
remark #51 [Permalink]... John Ennis spoke of on 10/28/2008 @ 7:31 pm PT...
update: The Asst. Atty. Gen. and Secretary of State of West Virginia have on account that called Video the Vote threatening to sue that we now have misrepresented the machines in modifying the footage.
The complete unedited pictures is (slowly) being uploaded now to www.videothevote.org which shows that, no, the County Clerk did should 2nd wager his personal calibration and approval of the touchscreen.
comment #52 [Permalink]... the zapkitty said on 10/28/2008 @ 7:31 pm PT...
but one of the crucial simple speaking features of the e-balloting shills has been that any opposition to the evm's should be in accordance with lack of awareness and hatred of the tech. Luddites is one in all their favourite phrases for us, and i suspect that all the hundreds of thousands of people who seem to be destined to acquire a extremely harsh lesson subsequent week are going to be regaled with that term in hasty explanations for what happened... a great deal... a great deal... despite the exact nature of the Luddites.
remark #53 [Permalink]... catbeller mentioned on 10/28/2008 @ 7:50 pm PT...
Programmer right here:
There is no such computing conception as "recalibration". someone is lying to the election officals. he's simply reinitializing the desktop, which would do absolutely nothing however return it to the state it become at the start in. Which may be anything else.
moving a pc would do absolutely NOTHING TO THE CODE ON THE computer. That excuse is utter bullshit, sorry. or not it's now not such as you shook a switch unfastened! There are not any moving elements.
I discover it difficult to agree with a programmer writing the cheat code insert would fail to make certain the display matched the voter's choice. until he was a hack, OR the code is so convoluted that the cheat code is affecting anything that they did not anticipate. Or the complete set of code is just unbelievably buggy. simply shut all of it down. All of them. Go to paper, like Canada.
remark #54 [Permalink]... karen from illinois observed on 10/28/2008 @ 7:58 pm PT...
anonymousif peops in any enviornment get numbers from precincts it may also be helpful,both the ballots forged numbers and the tape numbers r essential to show a "vote report" of a hundred and one per cent..but sure pa should be a problem
jeanie dean u rock as commonplace..ty for featuring exquisite links to aid clarify my ramblings..lol
mr ennis here is incredible work...however what the clerk in reality supposed wasssssssssss let me are attempting "calibrate" it an additional time!!!thats kinda how they "circulation" the vote circular til it gets to the outcomes they pre determined
remark #fifty five [Permalink]... catbeller noted on 10/28/2008 @ 8:07 pm PT...
that you can check your printed receipt all you adore. It has nothing to do with what changed into recorded in the database. it's a false sense of security, or not it's theater.
remark #56 [Permalink]... ROBinDALLAS pointed out on 10/28/2008 @ 9:09 pm PT...
they have got had as a minimum four years to change these intrinsically porous and enormously undependable voting machines. The incontrovertible fact that they haven't executed so speaks to conspiracy by means of people that want the vote to be hackable. In 2006 I requested probably the most ancient poll watchers (assistants or whatever the title for people that direct you to the machines etc. is) Why do they nonetheless use these machines when they've been proven to be wrong? He noted it could can charge too much money to alternate them. i know he became simply speakme out of his ass, nonetheless it pissed me off simply the equal. Paper ballots mustn't cost more cash. i might consider they would be cheaper. anyway, even though it did charge extra cash, it would be worth it to grasp that the elections are believable. No, the motive that these machines are still in use can also turn into painfully clear within the next few days. This nation really needs a revolution. The corruption runs deep on each side. i will vote for Obama, however I don't expect any gigantic alterations. He has already capitulated on FISA and retroactive telecom immunity, faith primarily based initiatives, the BAILOUT THEFT, and he nonetheless buys in to the OBL Al CIAda delusion. He wants to do more war, simply now not in Iraq. My most effective hope for him is if he gets the mandate of a landslide victory and his feet are held to the hearth on actual concerns. possibly he would then reply to the americans's desires. Cynthia McKinney is my first alternative, but i'm not going to supply McInsane a chance through vote casting for an option candidate this time. probably he may put her in his cabinet.
comment #fifty seven [Permalink]... Kira referred to on 10/29/2008 @ 1:21 am PT...
The best way which you could legitimately use one of those machines in a real election is to use them to print out a PAPER pollso that you could SEE who you voted for. Then every voter fingers the broadcast ballot to a protection shelter who places it into the LOCKED pollBOX which[at the beginning of the voting day]become ceremoniously opened and proven to the audience of citizens & video-taped for the listing to prove or not it's empty.
on the conclusion of the vote casting day, the votes are hand-counted through residents in undeniable view of the residents who are looking to collect for the experience. All video-taped for the list. it be the simplest way.
The states have been SCAMMED. The machines are worthless and they must understand it. In my state of GA, SOS Cathy Cox gave $54 MILLION dollars to Diebold and put their EVIL BLACKBOXES in each Precinct. The charge of every VOTE is someplace around $50.
The balloting computer groups went across the nation hiring outgoing Secretaries of State to foyer for them. You see how that works.
thank you RobinInDallas for casting your vote for O. We want a f***n LANDSLIDE to beat the computer.
comment #fifty eight [Permalink]... atlatl sees talked about on 10/29/2008 @ 1:fifty five am PT...
studying down all the comments in this sequence is an schooling. They contact on most of the things vote activists have come to keep in mind within the final six years or so. there is a poignancy to people when they desire machines to do their bidding.
because the architect of and integrator of a technical device, i will be aware standing by using a shopper who'd been knowledgeable in its use as he demonstrated it to a 3rd birthday celebration who became unfamiliar with the gadget. I stood in a sort of awe on the diploma of combined-up tips my customer turned into confidently communicating to the new grownup. He knew a way to work the controls, but his interpretations of what the system turned into "telling him" were way off.
here's the flaw at the coronary heart of the concept referred to as "coach the teacher".
Clerk Jeff Waybright (star of Video 2, Jackson County, WV) reminds me of my historical customer. he's neatly-which means, a little bit skilled, and expressive of the risks inherent in a little learning.
as long as the supplier's tech is hovering over and standing by way of, each Election respectable can come on like a technical whiz-youngster. this may engender a sort of smug, inside-dopester angle. some thing found in the wild amongst Elections team of workers, as well as in the presentation of self practiced by Chief Election officers.
here in Colorado, this illness of the human-computer relationship looks to have hit about half of the County Clerks. They meet in secret, withstand audits and other scrutiny, yet imperiously certify elections. They stands out as the first to let you know that they could not run an election with out their machines.
Machines and vendors and fraud and 24×7 poor quality everything is unhealthy sufficient --- simply look at what computer-lifestyle instills in the people in cost of vote casting in our democracy.
comment #fifty nine [Permalink]... Tom mentioned on 10/29/2008 @ three:21 am PT...
one way to prevent this is have the voters use the balloting machine AND listing a paper ballot. the whole of paper ballots for each representative for each precint, should still tally the digital balloting determine for the precinct.once that validation is finished, the vote count number can also be independently transmitted with the aid of two events to the State vote counting officers.
remark #60 [Permalink]... the zapkitty said on 10/29/2008 @ 5:29 am PT...
... Tom pointed out...
"one way to prevent here is have the voters use the balloting laptop AND listing a paper ballot."
Errrr... If the paper ballot is the verify on the evm (and it should be, see my comment #20 above) and if the evm can not be relied upon to check the paper ballot (and it can not, see my remark #20 above) then exactly what's the evm doing there in the first place? besides propping up a CEO's profits, I mean?
I get this one a great deal as neatly...
Even optical scanners may also be hacked. Bradblog, blackboxvoting etc etc all have the reports, stories, movies and so on and many others.
The simplest component that allows optical scanners to be considered over evms in any respect is the chance of a guide paper ballot count
think about that for a second...
however that pollvs evm conception also ends up in the lie it really is continually the last refuge of the evm shill: the lie that the disabled require evms to vote privately, securely and independently... and that therefore each person need to use evms.
And it is and all the time has been a lie. all the time accepted to be a lie. The fatal flaws in e-voting had been mentioned virtually as soon as the concept became proposed. people that honestly consider and repeat that lie are conveniently unaware of how completely or not it's been debunked.
When diabetic retinopathy took my sight I grew to be unable to vote privately, securely and independently. I have to count on someone to interpret my ballot and guide my marking of the ballot... and even if that book is somebody i do know and have confidence or whoever closing touched the code in an evm doesn't truly rely, does it?
expertise can't (at present) supply me back what I lost... and the use of my loss as an excuse to disenfranchise millions makes me very irritated.
last doesn't definitely segue well from the relaxation of the comment... time for one more monograph, most likely?
remark #61 [Permalink]... steve said on 10/29/2008 @ eight:17 am PT...
Zapkitty (52): Of course you might be right. I simply have a morbid feel of irony.
remark #sixty two [Permalink]... TomaHawk spoke of on 10/29/2008 @ 10:41 am PT...
good enough, i am convinced. basically I accept as true with Brad. Hand marked ballots which are hand counted. That minimizes the places the place election fraud can be dedicated. regrettably, we now have turn into a nation requiring speedy gratification, effects before dead night of election day. It changed into only a century ago that it took days to count number the votes and get them to the state election board. i might be satisfied to attend a number of days for consequences if it means an honestly carried out election. every yr, the a considerable number of ballots appear to develop with more offices and loads of referendums and such. Takes so a great deal greater time handy count number each question. perhaps the booklet of the the secondary stuff can wait a few days earlier than the counts for them are finished. wouldn't lifestyles be so a lot more desirable if we all have been innately sincere?
comment #sixty three [Permalink]... Kira talked about on 10/29/2008 @ eleven:33 am PT...
Zapkitty - I've in no way understood WHY it be so difficult to print BRAILLE BALLOTS for the blind. it be undoubtedly now not that expensive. now not compared to the can charge of purchasing/the usage of/maintaining the EVMs.
what's the quantity of the continuing expenditure for service/protection contracts paid to the balloting machine organizations? i know they have techs on call.
and everybody knows how much upgrades can charge plus replacement charge after they DIE on account of too an awful lot warmth or cold or negative storage environments or accidents.
AtlAtl you hit on another a part of the scenario - the Election officials have just adequate tips to make them in reality unhealthy.
Gawd - it's a Boardwalk Huckster's DREAM!
comment #64 [Permalink]... zapkitty pointed out on 10/29/2008 @ 4:01 pm PT...
Err... the undeniable fact that 88%+ of people who are blind/severely visually impaired can not examine Braille?
losing vision does not instantly confer the ability to study Braille and a lot of blind folks use numerous aides and applied sciences to get alongside just best devoid of it.
but in contrast to e-vote casting we are able to double-determine the outcomes we get from our generic utilization of such instruments.
remark #sixty five [Permalink]... Kira pointed out on 10/29/2008 @ four:39 pm PT...
Apologies, Zap. i am not on excellent of that situation as you've got pointed out.
So, to your opinion, what would be the most advantageous approach for a visually impaired adult to forged his/her vote devoid of counting on a sighted grownup OR DRE?
remark #sixty six [Permalink]... the zapkitty pointed out on 10/29/2008 @ 6:16 pm PT...
... Kira said..."Apologies, Zap."
Ack! don't make an apology! Neither because you're unaware of sundry disabled information nor because i am too lazy too be taught Braille
So, in your opinion, what often is the premier approach for a visually impaired person to cast his/her vote without relying on a sighted adult OR DRE?
First a coda to the Braille query: some thing that I didn't mention became that because of pollsecrecy: Braille ballots may still no longer be used, because they might stand out from typical voter-marked ballots and identify the voter with their ballot. The best solution to that could be to mark all ballots with Braille and print... i.e. mark all ballots with a language most americans can not consider and may't map to the published element of the ballot without laptop interpretation.
As for we the disabled casting votes? pragmatism should rule.
a variety of solutions can be found by way of pollmarking gadgets, but at some point the pollmust be demonstrated through the voter... and as of yet for the blind that requires laptop interpretation. The query is: is it worth the risk?
I consider so.
but denying the existence of that chance simply because that under no circumstances-to-be-sufficiently-damned HAVA legislations mandates impossibilities on the behalf of the disabled electronic vote casting CEOs is dangerously stupid.
resources and other viewpoints on disabled voting access are accessible but most likely that you would be able to birth with Noel Runyan's work with present evms that claim to provide access for the disabled... and his very own experiences with simply how miserably these billion-greenback boondoggles fail at what became imagined to be a primary justification for their existence.
this can also give you some primary starting historical past on disabled balloting in familiar.
remark #sixty seven [Permalink]... Bamboo Harvester spoke of on 10/30/2008 @ 1:17 am PT...
Wilburrr... ~ The more I suppose about this evm "calibration" enterprise the more I should conclude it's CockSuckingMotherfucking BOOOOoooollShit!
There are very refined multi-million greenback electronic systems that are calibrated annually and when checked after a year and are still within spec.
I believe this calibration bullshit is a smoke display and diversion to shut up and pacify individuals that query the logical anomaly that their vote is being robbed!
remark #68 [Permalink]... Farmer Iggy spoke of on 10/30/2008 @ four:forty four am PT...
He was incorrect at 1:49. at the end of the complete interview, he indicates that if you choose a candidate first, then a straight birthday party, the candidate does not alternate.
Nader didn't "come up." He turned into already chosen before the Mountain party was selected.
The calibration (stylus) become appropriate. He misspoke.
remark #sixty nine [Permalink]... sam observed on 10/30/2008 @ 6:16 am PT...
If people voted and the inaccurate candidate received the vote is there anything in area so that you can relevant these votes and give them to the candidate they supposed to vote for? If not then both celebration will get votes which are/or not what the voter supposed.
remark #70 [Permalink]... Ellen Theisen said on 10/30/2008 @ 11:forty seven am PT...
As reported on Computerworld, this video of the Jackson County clerk is edited. right here is the whole video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc9Gd5g3DFY
on the end, when Jeff Waybright modified the vote to straight Republican and Ralph Nader remained chosen, that is simply what should still have came about, according to his prior explanation. He mentioned, past within the video, that if you make a separate alternative after which change your straight-celebration vote, it's going to now not change the separate choice. So, this clip is unfortunately misleading.
however, what struck me about watching the total uncut edition changed into that once Mr. Waybright intentionally miscalibrated the touch reveal, it become then very elaborate to even select the ballot. It become also very complex to cancel the ballot. AND, the miscalibration became obvious in every option he made on each monitor. Yet voters are asserting that their touches checklist correctly in most cases, but flip in just one or just a few.
This video casts potent doubt on the concept that a miscalibration would have an effect on only one or two races. It additionally casts doubt on the concept that a miscalibration would trigger a voter to ought to touch the favored candidate several times to appropriate the flipped vote. no longer most effective that, the poll worker should still note a calibration issue when making an attempt to opt for the appropriate ballot for the voter. Why are we not hearing about that?
For me, the uncut video casts effective doubt on the idea that miscalibration is the explanation for the vote-flipping voters are reporting on the iVotronic.
remark #seventy one [Permalink]... Kira talked about on 10/30/2008 @ eleven:54 am PT...
Thanks Zapkitty for the links & your input. I actually have during the past seem in brief at probably the most info & ideas related to aid for the disabled to solid their votes as independently as viable. it's been frustrating that for the previous eight years we have not been capable of get any response from the gov't on the situation of Election Integrity. probably soon [folds hands in prayer] ...*sigh*
I do bear in mind, several years in the past [it's kind of in my twilight zone of memory] it appears Diebold gave a big amount of money to one of the agencies for the Blind with a view to elicit a rave assessment for his or her machines which helped them totally in wonderful PR & form of sealed the deal throughout the nation.
comment #seventy two [Permalink]... Tom spoke of on 10/30/2008 @ 12:21 pm PT...
The evms are used for short transmission of voting reults, besides the fact that children they should simplest be used after validation through paper ballot. The 'dual vote casting system', as i could name it serves to counter-examine one a different, in order that paper ballots can not be fiddled with both. That means americans planning electoral voting fraud, need to consider twice, earlier than commiting it. where the paper pollnumbers don't healthy the evms', there is truly an anamoly. The charge for the 'dual balloting system' is justified by means of the cost voters are able to pay for unadultrated democracy, i.e. the authentic voice of the individuals being heard.
remark #seventy three [Permalink]... the zapkitty spoke of on 10/30/2008 @ 1:07 pm PT...
... Tom stated...
"The evms are used for quick transmission of balloting reults, youngsters they should only be used after validation by paper ballot."
Er... your evms can get replaced via telephones?
"The 'twin balloting device', as i may name it serves to counter-examine one a further, so that paper ballots can not be fiddled with either."
however you have yet to clarify, given the extraordinarily disproportionate vulnerabilities of evm's compared to paper, simply how the evm's may well be used to "verify" the rest, and you've got yet to clarify simply what they'd be doing nevertheless being any place close an election.
pollsecurity is received by way of paying appropriate attention to pollcontrol and entry. There are definitely lots of requirements already existent for doing precisely that. They work... if followed.
What you would be unintentionally recreating through adding evm's to the combine could be just one other edition of "e-vote casting's last refuge" which is all the time different and yet is always the identical: "We can't have made the sort of massive screwup. We cannot... we simply cannot are living devoid of evms. Why? ... because!"
You would not even be adding cost and complexity to the electoral technique with no benefit in security... instead you would be adding fee, complexity and enormous security vulnerabilities to the electoral process. someone flips a couple of bits, the machines howl "danger! hazard! anything is incorrect someplace!" and the complete election is thrown into chaos on behalf of the susceptible, and unneeded, evms.
comment #seventy four [Permalink]... Tom observed on 10/30/2008 @ eleven:59 pm PT...
'twin balloting system' is barely an additional skill to guarantee the general public that there's much less opportunity for vote recording fraud. The formulation or know-how used, even if mobile, evm or pollpaper, then becomes irrelevant, because there is a counter sign in region. The weak point of each and every gadget fades into the heritage, when there is a 2d option to examine its accuracy. In that way the general public wins.
comment #seventy five [Permalink]... anonvoter referred to on eleven/1/2008 @ four:fifty five pm PT...
I feel they'd want to tell you that the calibration is required since the vote casting laptop makes use of a touch monitor, however I too discover this odd. You won't have to calibrate some other contact delicate instruments. My guess is that these machines are as reliable because the Auditing machines that the Church of Scientology makes use of, and i would take them simply as seriously.
comment #seventy six [Permalink]... B Altman talked about on eleven/1/2008 @ 5:59 pm PT...
residing in Georgia, I went online to locate what to do as soon as I obtained into the voting booth:http://sos.georgia.gov/E..._voting/vote_station.htm
i was inquisitive about what changed into kept or can be stored on that voter entry card you ought to plug into the desktop.A line at the backside of page says: “To be sure the privateness of your vote, your identification isn't recorded on the voter entry card or within the vote casting station. best the votes could be recorded. no one can be aware of the way you voted.”
I referred to as my local registrar and asked in regards to the voter access card. The grownup who answered referred to the cardboard simply “unlocks” the computer. So, I referred to, if that’s the case, if the card is barely a key that “unlocks” the laptop, then once I’ve been validated by using a poll employee – ie, by the use of my driver’s license or different doc – I should still be capable of swap playing cards with yet another person who’s also been validated with the aid of a poll worker. No, she said, you need to use the card you’ve been given. Why, if it’s just a “key”, then two validated individuals should be in a position to exchange keys, unless it outlets some thing specific to the person maintaining it. Does it, I asked her? yes, she referred to, it retailers your identify and handle. Does it save your vote as smartly, I requested her? Can it save a vote? No, she pointed out, it doesn’t save your vote, simplest your own advice. THIS BLATANTLY CONTRADICTS WHAT'S ON THE STATE web page AND, by using DEFINITION, IMPLIES A system in a position to CONNECTING an individual’S id TO THEIR VOTE.
The computer pictured on the sos.georgia.gov looks like the Diebold AccuVote TS pictured here:http://votingmachines.pr...ce.asp?resourceID=276#IV
I called the Georgia Secretary of State Elections Division at 404-656-2871 and located out that the machines used in my precint are made via Premier. I discovered the Premierelections contact site ---http://www.premierelections.com/contact_us.html
-- and called the sales/service Request line at 866-224-1792. I requested concerning the voter access card and the person who answered pointed out she wasn’t bound. She referred me to the aid desk. I called them at 866-307-7689. I requested the person who answered if the cardboard shops anything besides the holder’s name and tackle. He referred to i'd ought to ask my local election fee. I then requested him what it turned into viable to shop on these playing cards, what kind of meta-statistics was used in the software. again, he told me to contact my local election board or the Georgia Secretary of State’s workplace. I referred to who stronger to inform me in regards to the capabilities of the product than the assist desk of the company who made it? i was handiest requesting a universal technical spec. His answer to each question changed into the identical and appeared like he became prompt to take the Fifth: we will’t divulge that; contact the secretary of state’s office.
WHAT’S incorrect WITH THE STATEMENTS OF THE REGISTRAR AND PREMIER AND WHAT those STATEMENTS suggest? someone WITH criminal supplies, energy, AND INTEGRITY should examine THIS.
comment #77 [Permalink]... Omar mentioned on eleven/5/2008 @ three:forty one pm PT...References :
Erling Haaland has a confession to tell FourFourTwo. Ever because he become a small infant, he’s had an issue, and it’s best getting worse. every day, it’s on his intellect. each time he steps onto a football container, it absolutely consumes him.
He must rating goals. He must score goals.
during the last 10 months, his goalscoring has hit ludicrous tiers. Hat-tricks have become a regular occurrence. in one in shape, he scored a ridiculous nine instances. nevertheless it will under no circumstances be satisfactory. he will always desire more.
“I think I’m addicted…” reveals Haaland, bursting into laughter. “It’s an excellent dependancy!”
so far, it’s an addiction that has grew to become the 19-yr-historic striker into arguably essentially the most enjoyable youngster in world soccer. infrequently has a player so younger produced a year rather like this – a year that has changed him from a purple Bull Salzburg reserve into one in every of German football’s greatest stars, by the use of critical pastime from Manchester United.
Haaland scored eight instances in his first four video games for Borussia Dortmund. these eight strikes for BVB came from a total of 181 minutes, or the equivalent of two full matches. by the point of the season’s sudden hiatus, he had scored forty desires in barely 33 video games.
every player in Europe would like to submit those forms of numbers, and that they’re not the handiest ones who are resentful. as the Norwegian marksman arrives to greet FFT, there’s a stark message on his T-shirt. ‘The devil is jealous of me,’ it reads.
“You love it?” asks Haaland. “i know the devil has been jealous about me my complete existence…” The devil and everybody else for that be counted, we suggest, prompting a laugh from the teenage skill. “however in particular him,” he adds, smiling but elaborating no extra.© supplied by way of FourFourTwo (image credit score: FFT)
As we sit down right down to chat, it instantly turns into clear that Haaland speaks practically exclusively in one-liners, many of which might be delivered with a deliberate charisma about them, accompanied by means of a mischievous twinkle in his eyes. Haaland is diverse on the container and he's different off it.
He doesn’t play the media online game with the aid of its ordinary suggestions, using a flurry of meaningless media-informed clichés – words for the sake of words. long sentences are not for Erling Haaland. He desires to have a good time; to provide a touch of his personality and intelligence whereas final enigmatic.
When he hit a hat-trick on his Champions League debut for Salzburg towards Genk in September, in the first video game of a gaggle that also contained holders Liverpool and Napoli, the submit-match interview grew to be famous for its brevity.
“How are you feeling?”
“Very first rate.”
“What’s the secret? Seventeen goals now in nine video games…”
“To work hard.”
“Your father scored at Anfield in 1997 – are you going to comply with swimsuit?”
“i hope so.”
each reply came with a trademark wry smile. Haaland’s brevity appears to come no longer from shyness, but supreme self assurance. He has turned interviews right into a sport; a friendly fight of wits with the journalist. It’s harking back to the person he calls his idol: Zlatan Ibrahimovic.
Gallery: The 25 most beneficial beneath-23 players on the planet (FourFourTwo)
“i like his mentality and the way he sees various things,” Haaland tells FFT. “I suppose I’ve all the time had that self assurance, too – that’s simply me. I also like how he moves from one club to one more, in yet another nation – which isn’t handy – but he all the time is available in and just bangs in dreams, from the first 2nd. I liked due to the fact.”
moving to a brand new club in a further country and banging in desires from the primary second? That sounds normal... “It’s decent!” laughs Haaland, blissful that we’ve stated the similarity, well-nigh as if he turned into deliberately main us against it.
Has he ever spoken to Zlatan? “No, but we are able to see what the longer term brings,” he says.
the two avid gamers now share an agent, Mino Raiola – perhaps he could ask Mino about arranging whatever? “We’ll see!” he replies, laughing. Then he emphasises that he doesn’t see his on-box video game as an identikit Ibrahimovic.
The Norwegian’s method is based around pace, circulation and breaking away from the last line of defence. “We’re each strikers and we’re each tall,” explains the 6ft 4in forward. “but we have a distinct game. It’s challenging to examine us. i am who i'm.”
The player certainly to prevail Zlatan as Scandinavia’s next big famous person become definitely born in Leeds. It changed into there that his father, Alfie Haaland, and mother Gry Marita Braut, a former athlete, resided when child Erling arrived in July 2000. A month earlier, dad had signed for Manchester city from Leeds United, after a outdated spell at Nottingham forest – the membership he represented when he seemed for Norway at the 1994 World Cup.
by means of 2003, nonetheless best 30 years of age and never helped via an infamous challenge from Roy Keane at ancient Trafford when Erling changed into simply 9 months ancient, Alfie retired from football. soon, he moved the household returned to his domestic town of Bryne in south-west Norway.
“i was turning four years historic,” says Erling. “We lived in Leeds, and when I see photographs of me in kindergarten, I get some recollections, however I don’t remember a great deal about England.
“When he changed into playing there, i used to be far too younger to recognize he changed into a footballer. When i was about five or six, I knew that he performed in the Premier League and for the Norwegian national group. He’s told me a bit bit about it, and i’ve considered clips of his goals – basically fairly exceptional desires!”
His dad has never proven him a clip of the Keane handle. “No,” he says, understandably no longer wanting to dwell on that specific subject. besides the fact that children he doesn’t bear in mind his father’s video games for Manchester city and wasn’t even born when Alfie performed for Leeds, he admits to having a delicate spot for both groups. Older brother Astor has in the past posted a picture on-line of baby Erling in a city shirt, and Erling himself once declared that his dream changed into “to win the Champions League with Leeds”. He says he now has a new aim – to do it with Borussia Dortmund.
“that might be a extremely best dream…” he says, smiling, before explaining his affiliation with Leeds and Manchester city. “My father played for diverse Premier League teams, so of route you turn into a fan. You help them since you guide your dad.”
because the son of a Norway international, Erling and his footballing building begun to appeal to consideration. “as a result of I’m his son, there was at all times some pressure, however I liked that,” he says. “It has all the time been a motivation to turn into more suitable than him, and to are living the life he lived – to reside off football. That’s probably the best job that you could have.”© 2016 VI-images Erling Haaland whereas at purple Bull Salzburg
His father has been there to help him each step of the way – even if Erling didn’t come to be following Alfie into midfield. “I actually have at all times been an attacker,” he insists. “To be honest, it’s more enjoyable to be a striker than a defensive midfielder! We’ve always talked a lot about soccer, although, ever on account that I started taking part in. We still do. For my whole life, he has been a large position model.”
Haaland quickly confirmed precise promise. known as into the overseas setup at youth level, he won big confidence with a aim from the midway line, without delay from kick-off. “Yeah, that became a extremely pleasant one,” he says. “That turned into in 2015, for Norway under-15s. It’s possibly the nicest goal I’ve ever scored.”
His confidence was additionally transforming into off the pitch: a 12 months later, he and two of his Norway group-mates created a tongue-in-cheek rap video while on overseas duty and posted it on YouTube. It now has very nearly three.5 million views – “since it’s a pleasant video!” he says. Erling, Erik Botheim and Erik Tobias Sandberg called themselves the circulate Kingz, and are nevertheless shut buddies nowadays.
Haaland adds, “We had been with the countrywide team, U16s or U17s. We’d had a extremely long day and had nothing to do, so we determined to make a rap video. I believe my football abilities are quite plenty more suitable, but my rap abilities? They’re now not too bad...” for sure, his Dortmund team-mates have played it in the dressing room. “I suppose they liked it,” says the striker with a huge grin.
Haaland had made his membership debut for Bryne aged 15. He didn’t rating in sixteen appearances in Norway’s second tier, however his encouraging displays – primarily as an alternative – earned him a circulation to desirable-flight club Molde in 2017. There, he linked up with supervisor Ole Gunnar Solskjaer – arguably the most reliable finisher in the heritage of Norwegian football.
“I arrived at Molde as a young kid, and he helped me lots,” explains Haaland. “He was a pretty good finisher, and helped me with remarkable abilities and distinct completing strategies. He’s been essential in my career.”
It was under the child-confronted murderer that Haaland’s goalscoring took off at senior stage – having shot up in peak, to such an extent that group-mates nicknamed him ‘Manchild’. the key moment got here in a fixture at Brann, halfway during the 2018 crusade. earlier than that, Haaland had netted only four league desires in forty two senior appearances. He faced the unbeaten league leaders, who had conceded just 5 desires in 14 video games, after which scored four goals inside 21 minutes of kick-off.
“That online game become essential for my profession,” admits Haaland. “I’d had a tricky pre-season and i was sick for a very long time, but I remember that in shape adore it changed into the day past.” when we ask what recollections he has, we get a literal answer. “Scoring 4 dreams…” he replies. “It turned into a very good feeling! After that video game, I discovered a way to ranking more.”
The next three video games produced three more desires, and by using mid-August he had agreed to be a part of Salzburg on January 1, 2019, for £4.5m. There had been activity from Leeds, Bayer Leverkusen and even Italian giants Juventus, however the Haaland family unit believed that Salzburg had been the choicest next step for his construction: that they had previously helped Sadio Mané and Naby Keita growth to larger issues.
“It changed into a perfect flow,” he reflects. “in the first half of the yr I trained lots and didn’t play a lot, however then the summer season arrived and i just didn’t seem to be lower back. There become a brand new supervisor who helped me a lot: Jesse Marsch became dazzling to me.”
Gallery: The one hundred most influential people in football right now (FourFourTwo)
An 18-12 months-historical Haaland had made simply two league appearances in his first half-season with Salzburg, however then he went away to the below-20 World Cup in Poland. losing their first two community matches against Uruguay and New Zealand, Norway have been eradicated from the match without Haaland discovering the internet.
Their closing fit was a dead rubber, nevertheless it earned the ahead international consideration: Norway beat Honduras 12-0, and Haaland scored nine times. regardless of scoring in exactly one online game, he bagged the Golden Boot with more than twice as many goals as anybody else.
“It turned into a nice video game,” he says with a smile. “I’d scored that many dreams in a online game when i used to be younger – I don’t remember how many the most became, but I scored a lot when i was young. once I obtained nine, I had this sense of ‘I’m nonetheless young’. It turned into a ravishing night.”
Even when he scored 9, Haaland felt he might have had greater. “VAR stopped me!” he laughs. “If VAR become on my side, i would have might be received 11, so it became just a little disappointing…”
When he went lower back to Salzburg, Haaland kicked off the 2019-20 campaign with three goals in the first round of the Austrian Cup. Two league trebles had adopted by the time his Champions League debut rolled round in mid-September. It was a game Haaland had dreamed about for years.
A team-mate later published that the day before the domestic healthy with Genk, Haaland had been enjoying the Champions League theme tune while using round in his motor vehicle.
“smartly, you be aware of, you just like the song?” asks Haaland. “i like it, so I put it on. I had been looking forward to the online game for a very long time.”
It turned into additionally red Bull Salzburg’s debut within the community stage, after greater than a decade of falling short within the competition’s qualifying ranges. Haaland made sure it turned into a night to be aware. He opened the scoring inner two minutes and accomplished his hat-trick before half-time as Salzburg gubbed Genk 6-2.
He turned into the third-youngest participant ever to ranking a hat-trick within the Champions League, after Wayne Rooney and Raul. “but subsequent time i will be able to’t celebrate my first aim for therefore long,” he recalls, laughing. “After the occasion i was useless – I had to take it convenient!”
a few weeks later, Erling adopted in his father’s footsteps via scoring at Anfield, 4 minutes after coming off the bench. It levelled the video game at three-3 after Salzburg had trailed 3-0, but Liverpool at last triumphed four-3. Haaland says, “He’d informed me lots of times, ‘I scored at Anfield, so I consider you also have to do this’. Then the possibility got here, and that i took it. So now we’re even.”
dreams persevered to flow: two at home to Napoli, one away at Napoli, and one away at Genk. In 5 appearances – handiest three of them from the start – Haaland had hit eight Champions League desires. He’d also added a different hat-trick in the Austrian league, for his fifth matchball of the season.
“They lie in mattress and i sleep smartly with them,” he advised the Norwegian press. “they are my girlfriends.” most likely he was most effective joking... correct? “that you can feel some thing you believe about it,” he says, making an attempt the mysterious method, but we’re nonetheless curious – did he? “Er, yes, one nighttime I in reality had the ball drowsing beside me…” he giggles.© provided by means of FourFourTwo (photo credit: PA)
through that point, a host of desirable golf equipment desired to recruit Haaland, who had an attractive £18m release clause in his Salzburg contract. Agent Raiola later confirmed that he held talks with a dozen distinctive golf equipment. among those linked were Juventus again, Barcelona, true Madrid, RB Leipzig, Manchester metropolis and Manchester United, now managed by way of Haaland’s former Molde boss, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.
Haaland carefully considered his alternate options – consulting along with his father and with Raiola – and determined that Borussia Dortmund would be the smartest movement for his career. As with crimson Bull Salzburg, BVB’s list of developing youngsters – Jadon Sancho, Christian Pulisic and Ousmane Dembele among them – went of their favour.
once they met up for talks, the Bundesliga giants also confirmed Haaland a video of their famous Yellow Wall. “I’d considered it earlier than that, of route, but they showed me – the entire fanatics are miraculous right here,” he explains.
“I had a superb feeling about Dortmund from the first second, and that’s why I’m here. I preferred the total membership, the heritage, the people within the membership and how they run it. We determined Dortmund became the gold standard alternative. And it is.”
Haaland is reluctant to discuss Manchester United’s interest, and whether he spoke to Solskjaer. “I don’t discuss that; i will talk about me and my club,” he says firmly, while admitting he became flattered by way of their pastime: “It’s at all times best when clubs are interested. It ability you’ve performed anything correct.”
His Bundesliga debut got here as a substitute at Augsburg as BVB trailed three-1. inside three minutes, he had scored. within 23 minutes, he had a hat-trick. Dortmund gained 5-three.
“I might on no account have anticipated how issues started,” confesses Haaland. “The manager simply advised me to go on and make a difference... and that i did.”© supplied through FourFourTwo How this feature first regarded in FourFourTwo's April 2020 challenge (picture credit: FourFourTwo)
a week later, he scored twice at home to Cologne: his first dreams in front of the Yellow Wall. The week after that brought two extra towards Union Berlin, that means he had scored seven in his first three outings, from his first seven shots heading in the right direction as a Dortmund player. another goal adopted at Werder Bremen in the German Cup, then one more at home to Eintracht Frankfurt within the league.
Are we at a stage where he is dissatisfied if he doesn’t score two or more in a video game?
“we're dissatisfied!” Dortmund’s media officer jokingly interjects from the returned of the room. “most likely he could be, but no, no, no...” Haaland laughs. “probably the most essential thing is to achieve something with the group,” he says.
“We’re capable of every thing. The beginning here has been absolutely miraculous, and the club have helped me plenty – it’s now not handy to come to a brand new area within the middle of the season. I already think at domestic.”
but Haaland insists he isn’t stunned that he has continued to score dreams this season. “now not actually, as a result of I’ve been doing this my entire life,” he asserts.
“It’s what i wished to do when i was older. It’s what I do. I all the time knew I’d be an excellent participant, but issues have been going quickly. i love that pace!”
Haaland changed into January’s Bundesliga participant of the Month after just fifty nine minutes of league football – he is simple enough to know that each season may additionally not be somewhat like this one. he is also organized for any setbacks he may face. however Haaland believes that he will also be the most beneficial striker in the world one day. “Of course,” he says. “it would be great, wouldn’t it?”
First, he hopes to assist Borussia Dortmund problem for honours, before rounding off the season by using performing for Norway at Euro 2021. He picked up his first two senior caps in early September however ignored the next two overseas breaks with harm, and a great deal has happened considering that then; he hadn’t even made his Champions League debut at that time. He may well be fairly harder to cease in the League C play-offs, which should still have taken location in March.
nonetheless with out a new date connected, Norway host Serbia within the semi-finals, and will then have a different domestic tie against both Scotland or Israel should still they progress. in the event that they reach the Euros they will tackle England – a rustic Haaland might have represented.
Norway haven’t participated at a huge event for two decades, and he's keen to put that correct. “Very keen,” he says. “Serbia are a very good crew, however we have a fair possibility.”
His father won 34 caps for Norway. Erling has set himself a goal to more suitable that figure. The childhood dream of surpassing his dad nonetheless drives him. actually, is he there already? “No, no,” he insists. “but with a bit of luck in the future.”
either manner, he's on the appropriate route. “i'm,” he says, smiling as we shake fingers and conclusion our chat. In an abnormal, often monosyllabic method, he has been enticing enterprise. Erling Haaland is respectable, and he is aware of it.
Days after we meet, he ratings one more two goals within the Champions League remaining sixteen at domestic to Paris Saint-Germain. Dortmund may also have misplaced the 2d leg, but the reactions of PSG players in their celebrations – taking the chance to mock Haaland – best raise Haaland's stature.
If he can have a season like this on the age of 19, the years ahead could be very particular certainly.References :
READER feedback ON"NH Election Contest update: 7.5% Vote count Discrepancy present in Nashua, Ward 5 for Clinton, Edwards"(31 Responses thus far...)
comment #1 [Permalink]... Patriot pointed out on 1/22/2008 @ 1:37 am PT...
7.5%? this is fully unacceptable. To me it is never even a rely in what route the votes go after the recount, a huge discrepancy as noted here isn't whatever that may still be tolerated no count number who you're balloting for. i am ailing of this. This wasn't the variety of file i wished to examine after analyzing about a likely Florida Vote fraud already in the works. 
remark #2 [Permalink]... the_zapkitty mentioned on 1/22/2008 @ 3:25 am PT...
... Patriot pandered...
"This wasn't the variety of report i wanted to examine after reading about a probable Florida Vote fraud already in the works."
Hallucinate a great deal?
From the above linked web site"it is the job of the U.S. defense force to guarantee a Republican variety of government."
i am certain. And spreading rumors of Rampant! Voter! Fraud! in order to disenfranchise minority, terrible and elderly voters is a major method the Republicans use to assure a govt of Republicans.
by the way... have you ever captured Ann Coulter yet?
comment #three [Permalink]... None spoke of on 1/22/2008 @ three:fifty six am PT...
Brad, you had been scooped via the Nashua Telegraph.
except, not like you, they called the metropolis Clerk. (Would you adore their mobilephone number?) It become found that they added the VP write-ins to the totals, identical to Manchester Ward 5. And why simply Clinton and Edwards? A ingenious mistake primarily based plan to steal the one delegate from Obama? Or the lame excuse of making the error on the left facet of the kind and never the correct side.
There are different massive typo blunders in the SOS numbers, however i could wait to look those in headlines.
[ED notice: in fact, I do not accept as true with the metropolis Clerk became obtainable to reply the cell in the dark remaining night once I got here throughout the big disparities detailed above. however like Manchester Ward 5, if the rationalization is reliable, that votes for VP (for some candidates only) were introduced to the Presidential totals, then as soon as again, I might suggest you send a thanks note to Dennis Kucinich for stressful, and deciding to buy, the verification of election effects that the state of NH should have accomplished themselves. were it now not for that hand count, of direction, the firstly *flawed* vote totals would have stood as "legit".
beyond that, you might be welcome to preserve posting apologistic notes on behalf of the vote casting laptop groups and/or state of NH. but a bit of more honesty, and transparency in your behalf can be favored. As neatly, you've got been strolling a extremely pleasant line for your posts of late, between sincere criticism and dishonest, disinfo. Please watch. And intellect our commenting suggestions. thank you. --- BF]
comment #4 [Permalink]... NateTG observed on 1/22/2008 @ 6:fifty two am PT...
remark #5 [Permalink]... Bluebear2 referred to on 1/22/2008 @ 7:12 am PT...
it's definite that the outcomes will not exchange an iota....The whole concept that it will is a fallacy this is harmful to americans' self assurance in the democratic process."
The 7.four% over-count in a single ward is "destructive to american citizens' self assurance in the democratic procedure."
comment #6 [Permalink]... M. L. prepare dinner mentioned on 1/22/2008 @ 8:08 am PT...
The 7.4% over-count number in a single ward is "damaging to americans' confidence within the democratic technique."
and that's why we now have a paper path so that these HUMAN blunders can also be discovered.
[ED NOTE: You *presume* it's "HUMAN errors", without bothering to ask for evidence of same. In either case, they are State of New Hampshire errors, that should have been caught, had they done their job of taking some of the $3 billion they are privileged to bring in under their precious first-in-the-nation status, and apply a tiny portion of that money towards ensuring the votes are actually counted accurately. They have not done that, and it's absurd that Dennis Kucinich (or *any* candidate) should be forced to raise money and pay for the job NH should have done in the first place. --- BF]
remark #7 [Permalink]... Badger said on 1/22/2008 @ 8:47 am PT...
what is the motive that there's a 7+% trade with two candidates, however no longer across the board?
comment #eight [Permalink]... M. L. cook observed on 1/22/2008 @ 9:08 am PT...
Reply to Badger, #7.
The answer to your question is the quantity 2.
Two vice presidential candidates numbers had been added into two presidential candidates.
comment #9 [Permalink]... M. L. cook dinner mentioned on 1/22/2008 @ 9:41 am PT...
you will definitely should truth examine your articles. here is pitiful.
"thus far the preliminary stories from New Hampshire, are gigantic quantities of vote fixing. all through the ongoing re-count number in New Hampshire, Hillsborough county has stated a vote trade of 1869 votes...."
The SOS warns on the state site that Weare County has not been complete, therefore is not a FULL SET of RECOUNTED totals. YET, your article claims that there became a "vote alternate of 1869 votes".
PURE BS. The actuality of the be counted is the recount has now not been completed, thus no one comprehend what the "vote alternate" is going to be.
extra, the article doesn't soak up account for voter and HUMAN error that has been stated for the county.
If these groups can not win with the statistics, they deserve to get out of how. by making up their personal records, they're HURTING the cause.
[ED NOTE: And "these groups" would be who exactly? It seems that state and voting machine company apologists, and believers in "faith-based" voting like yourself, are the ones acting irresponsibly here, by criticizing those who are supporting, and have even paid for, the hand count which has revealed enormous errors across the board...no matter whether the errors were human or machine (which we may never know, since the SoS has so far refused to turn over the Diebold memory cards, so that they can be examined to discover if there were any errors or tampering on them). --- BF]
comment #10 [Permalink]... Jean referred to on 1/22/2008 @ 9:47 am PT...
So how long is that this recount going to take? i'm dissatisfied it was no longer done earlier than NC vote. effects do impact results. If it become election day the day before today, we would often already recognize the effects because yesterday midnight. What are the numbers? And are all the votes accouted for? When votes disapear, will we comprehend the place they went or is it totaly desktop error?
[ED NOTE: Read this follow-up for much more detail and answers to a few of your questions. No, the votes aren't all accounted for in any means, shape or kind. lamentably. And devoid of the reminiscence playing cards from the Diebold machines, there's little solution to investigate even if the error have been human, or laptop-connected. "How lengthy will it take"? a long time. Nashua paper reports that 40% can be counted through mid-subsequent week. Underscoring yet once more, the should Get it correct on Election night!!! --- BF]
remark #11 [Permalink]... Dolphyn stated on 1/22/2008 @ 10:08 am PT...
Brad, is there a typo within the headline for this text? The headline suggests "Nashua, Ward 4" however the article seems to be about Ward 5.
[ED NOTE: Thanks, Dolphyn. Corrected. --- BF]
remark #12 [Permalink]... OMSmedia pointed out on 1/22/2008 @ eleven:forty nine am PT...
Come on Brad....you recognize who exactly "These corporations" are...do you even study as you class?
reminiscence playing cards are erased after tabulation confirmations at each ends. So please stop beating that lifeless horse. I even have some historic Nintendo carts...they've the same info in case you desire them.
(OMSmedia is brother of Former SD ROV)
comment #13 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman said on 1/22/2008 @ 12:01 pm PT...
OMS Media (aka Don Haas)-
No, definitely I don't know who "these organizations" are. appears like little more than tried slimes, with out providing any proof or quotation, to go along with them. we might call that "swiftboating" where I come from.
As to the reminiscence playing cards, in the event that they've been erased, that might be in violation of Federal legislations which requires such substances be retained for 22 months after an election.
not to point out that there haven't, in the past, been any "tabulation confirmations" at any conclusion.
I remember attempting to rebuild your brother's recognition, as being one of the most country's worst Registrar's of balloting in San Diego is crucial to you, as is trying to ask for forgiveness for the fact that he in no way met a Diebold vote casting computer he did not love, and a voter's ballot he failed to provide a shit about verifying as accurate in any approach.
however your slime laptop, and that of "M.L. cook dinner's" and "None's" needs to cease. although it suggests the category of democracy-hating folks which are accessible who should be contended with.
remark #14 [Permalink]... M. L. cook dinner referred to on 1/22/2008 @ 12:24 pm PT...
Reply to editor observe in #6
"You *presume* or not it's "HUMAN error", devoid of bothering to ask for facts of same."Hampshire recount."
*Presume*?? Are you attempting to inform us that all of the press stories of voter error are false? no longer a single voter marked a ballot, after which additionally wrote in a vote for a similar candidate?? not a single voter voted for a Republican candidate within the Democrat race?? Are you attempting to inform us that election employees are a hundred% correct??
remark #15 [Permalink]... Daisy spoke of on 1/22/2008 @ 12:50 pm PT...
Assuming that we believe the reasons within the article in Nashua Telegraph;
These human errors wouldn't have happen in the event that they hand counted the ballots to start with! The machines separated these ballots as uncounted votes (for counting vice president write-ins), after which some very perplexed person on the polling station introduced these ballots to the presidential votes. I have no reason for left-web page vs. appropriate web page, notwithstanding. Anyway, these error would by no means were made if we simply use paper ballots and hand counting! There isn't any large error in hand counting towns to date (Obama's counts in Wilton became corrected over the weekend. obviously, that changed into a transcription error which is handy to be found).
Human mistakes would be minimum in case you use paper ballots and hand counting with dignity. See a good illustration:
remark #16 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman referred to on 1/22/2008 @ 1:02 pm PT...
M.L. cook dinner #14 -
*Presume*?? Are you making an attempt to inform us that the entire press experiences of voter error are false?
well, golly, i would under no circumstances imply that MSM press stories about vote counting mistakes might be incorrect (rolling eyes).
That observed, I wasn't "attempting to tell" you anything other than what I did let you know: The Nashua Telegraph said that rationalization, I have yet to check it. a problem with that?
not a single voter marked a ballot, after which additionally wrote in a vote for a similar candidate??
Have observed nothing of the style.
no longer a single voter voted for a Republican candidate within the Democrat race??
Have referred to nothing of the model.
Are you making an attempt to tell us that election laborers are 100% accurate??
once again, I don't "are attempting to tell" you the rest. I simply let you know.
And no, I've mentioned nothing even remotely concerning "election workers are 100% correct".
You troll-apologists are definitely start to are attempting my nerves. both keep on with what has actually been *pronounced* here (as I do, after I document issues, please publish independently verifiable tips for your claims, or they may be regarded disinfo), or you are usually not here for lengthy.
I do not care if *anybody* disagrees with me on the rest. I *do* care about realizing, purpose[ful] disinformation. So knock it off, "M.L. cook dinner". You too have now been warned.
you are welcome.
remark #17 [Permalink]... M. L. cook mentioned on 1/22/2008 @ 1:20 pm PT...
Reply to editors comment on #9.
"vote casting computing device company apologists, and believers in "religion-based mostly" voting like your self,"
Are you performed spewing these falsehoods? That fact still continues to be that those numbers in the article are incorrect.
i am sorry to rock your boat with THE certainty, but i'd rather base my opinions definitely that made up nonsense.
ED notice: No clue what "article" you're speakme about. If The BRAD weblog has said wrong numbers, or fallacious the rest, let me recognize. I can not fact check reader feedback. that is what you might be for. but figuring out disinfo is not allowed right here, and slurring "those companies" or anything nonsense you posted, with out statistics to again them up, aren't tolerated. you're practically gone, M.L. prepare dinner. Straighten up, or your outta right here. --- BF
comment #18 [Permalink]... sunny steve talked about on 1/22/2008 @ 1:51 pm PT...
really, or not it's even worse than it looks. The trade in vote totals don't measure the number of ballots misinterpret via the machine counting, most effective the web exchange in the outcomes by means of precinct, because the scanner can misinterpret ballots in both instructions inside every precinct. Ballots counted in error by using the desktop for a candidate (which might be then not noted in the hand count)are canceled by means of any legitimate ballots not counted by using the machine (that are then added in the hand count) within the equal precinct. The web exchange is found out within the precinct complete, however this does not symbolize the entire of ballots misinterpret. So calculating percent error rates at all times offers a minimal price.
additionally, each aggregation in reporting extra minimizes the error percentage. for example, mixture up from the precinct examples to the whole alternate for Obama. Subtracting out the votes no longer yet mentioned from Weare, Obama's vote totals raise by way of only 1 vote. Yet we will count number the web changes in each precinct (complete the changes through precinct regardless of + or -) and discover that at the least 117 ballots were misread, no longer just one.
The true error expense cannot be everyday. that might require hand counting ballots within the same order as the desktop did and monitoring even if every particular person ballot was examine correctly.
My activity in this recount is to demonstrate that any avoidable error fee is unacceptable. My fogeys taught me that voting was the highest privilege and obligation that I have as a citizen of a democracy. I are looking to understand that my ballot, that one sacred ballot, will always remember correctly.
BTW, The constitution stipulates that votes shall no longer count number secretly. look it up.
comment #19 [Permalink]... Alan referred to on 1/22/2008 @ 2:13 pm PT...
who're these ass****s that are announcing the numbers on this web page are wrong and then no longer giving a brand new set. I simply determine double checked these numbers on the .gov site: http://www.sos.nh.gov/recountresults.htm and they're suitable for NASHUA, WARD 5. absolutely these people asserting get your data right are not idiots (idiots would put up their flawed records), but Hillary supporters or worse... incidentally it be not known as vote fraud (the voters didn't cheat), or not it's called election fraud.
comment #20 [Permalink]... M. L. cook referred to on 1/22/2008 @ three:18 pm PT...
Reply to Alan, #19.
There are two arguments during this thread.
the primary offers with the query if the Nashua Ward 5 exchange in vote totals are the outcome of human error.
The 2nd offers with the numbers in the article linked in remark #1.
It is apparent that the numbers in FloridaVote.us article are false. no person took the time to truth assess the article. They count on that a full recount of Hillsborough County has been accomplished. but out of your link, you have proven that it has no longer been.
"PLEASE observe: The tally for WEARE is not finished!!
The FloridaVote link is making a false argument that there became a 1869 vote alternate in Hillsborough County.
however of course, when I have pointed out this indisputable fact, i am attacked through Brad. i am called a "voting machine business apologists, and believers in "religion-based" voting like yourself".
It is just too unhealthy that Brad can not reside through his own rules. He claims that he dislikes disinformation, but then he assaults those that are trying to existing the truth.
evidently, the aspect that I even have tried to make in this thread had long past absolutely over Brad's head. there is a change between those that makes use of data to support their declare, and people who makes use of myths, and why it is important.
If the gets me ban, then so be it.
remark #21 [Permalink]... M. L. cook noted on 1/22/2008 @ 7:forty eight pm PT...
"The Nashua Telegraph pronounced that rationalization, I have yet to examine it. a problem with that?"
sure I do have an issue with that. There was already one source of suggestions to lower back up the human error declare. however that wasn't good satisfactory for you. You declare that it must be an "independent supply". smartly right here it's. A source that has been used for your site.
"..... I have not heard returned from Manchester yet however did talk with Nashua city clerk Paul Bergeron.
Bergeron agreed that it would be very peculiar if two clerks in distinct cities made an identical error that no one else made however says that in this case the complications in each ward have been in fact distinct, even though equivalent enough to confuse journalists. He says that as he understands it, the preliminary reason behind Manchester Ward 5 is suitable --- that the issue become a transcription error that came about when a clerk mistakenly introduced write-in votes from the vice-presidential race to the presidential race tallies. however he says the difficulty in Nashua Ward 5 changed into diverse in that it passed off as a result of election officers there tallied some presidential votes twice.
He defined that after recording the votes cast for president on the Democratic ballots, the optical-scan machines automatically sorted out ballots that contained write-in decisions in the vice-presidential race in order that election officers could count the write-in votes via hand. He says that election officials mistakenly believed that the machines had now not already counted the presidential votes on these ballots and therefore tallied these votes by hand as neatly, leading to double votes for the presidential candidates."
"officials say these issues would were caught throughout the standard canvassing period after they reconciled the variety of ballots forged with the variety of presidential votes counted and the number of voters who signed in on the polls."
opposite to you false allegations, I haven't unfold any disinformation. I had the facts on my aspect all along.
Now, that I have completed your job. that you may thank me later.
ED note: a different reporter, reporting on explanation from the identical supply is hardly ever "impartial" confirmation. That noted, I've neither pointed out the file changed into real or unfaithful, however rather, I did not verify it a method or one other. extra, I do not even understand what the hell difference it makes. The hand count verification of ballots that Kucinich has paid for, but which should still were achieved via the state, has published error after error of the variety outlined above. You deserve no thanks for your attempts to undermine democracy. Kucinich deserves the entire thanks on the planet, for his attempts to maintain it safe from folks such as you. last probability. I've bought no extra time to play whack-a-moll with disingenuous disinfo brokers. a further and you'll no longer be welcome right here. Sorry about that. --- BF
comment #22 [Permalink]... James spoke of on 1/22/2008 @ eight:eleven pm PT...
and that is the reason why its essential to (a) double and triple determine your work to discover blunders (b) let someone 'independent' assessment your work, and (c) all the time all the time at all times go to the primary source in place of relying on a SECONDARY source (like a media author or reporter). it is additionally why its essential to have ballot/precinct people take math and reading exams and have certain skills earlier than allowing them the responsibility of tallying assistance. Of route its in fact complicated to get a laptop to take a comprehension look at various.
remark #23 [Permalink]... GaryCol noted on 1/22/2008 @ 9:28 pm PT...
As an Australian staring at the American version of democracy in motion, I actually have some issues trying to figure out how the entire component works.If I actually have it right then each State runs its own election, with its personal set of rules controlling no longer handiest the way to vote however who can vote. These guidelines additionally set how the votes are counted and by way of what components.to date, all I even have seen is a shambles. a computer based voting computer that utilizes reminiscence cards, which might also or may additionally no longer work and may be switched at any time even whereas the balloting is taking location. Even the computers programming integrity has been known as into query. Why now not have the entire computers networkedThe most suggested detail about each of the candidates has been the amount of cash they have got raised to conduct the election with a great deal much less time and printing ink dedicated to the actual guidelines of each.Now that a recount has been known as for in New Hampshire, why does it take a month to count a couple of thousand ballot papers. Why does a candidate who calls for the recount have to pay for it? Why is it that the company who controls the vote casting machines holds the memory cards? These in addition to all hand written pollpapers should still be impounded at the close of polling compartments and held at a comfy location with a paper trail of handling unless an agreed date for the destruction some time well into the long run when all parties consider the outcomes.
comment #24 [Permalink]... Brad Friedman spoke of on 1/22/2008 @ 11:forty eight pm PT...
you are having no issues understanding how the total aspect works. you have got hit every nail on each head.
sure, it's a shambles. Sorry you needed to word. (Sorrier still that it appears the most suitable we can do around here. don't tell your countrymen, k?)
remark #25 [Permalink]... M. L. prepare dinner spoke of on 1/23/2008 @ 7:17 am PT...
"You deserve no thanks on your makes an attempt to undermine democracy."
right here we go once more with yet another baseless very own attack. You cannot even are living up to your own rules.
ED note: I can't agree with i'm nevertheless bothering to play this video game with you. however here we go. I trust your feedback are attempts at undermining authentic, tested democracy. you have got a consistent pattern of misrepresenting suggestions, knowiningly, I believe. And for that reason, I see no "very own attack" in telling you as tons. I accept as true with there's reasonably somewhat of facts to aid the claim on these pages from you --- BF
At no time have I made any claims that we may still not use VOTER MARKED PAPER BALLOTS, nor have I mentioned that we won't have these recounts. i'd love to see New Hampshire completely recounted.
further, 12 minutes after I posted the link to wired.weblog.com, John Gideon does the identical.
ED notice: There is not any difficulty posting the story. The issue is the way you knowingly lied about what we now have mentioned (and have not) round right here. --- BF
It is too unhealthy that you're too scared to have real debate. Others freely submit the similar counsel, however mine is referred to as "disinformation".
ED note: i am quite assured that if anybody bothers to go again and skim what's on the record from you, on this on my own, they may be capable of verify what's what. however only one of your statements: "If these organizations can't win with the data, they should get out of how. by making up their personal information, they're HURTING the trigger", implies there are some unnamed agencies, making up statistics. who are those organizations? And what statistics were made up? because your insinuation appears to be that one such "neighborhood" is BRAD blog. And if so, you've got presented no such facts, and i believe are evidently lying. occurring to imply, as you did later, that we are one way or the other asserting "pollworkers are always a hundred% accurate" is just nonsense, and a waste of time for me to even be dealing with (which I won't be doing very quickly, in any respect). --- BF
an extra thing, i spotted that you could not refute my declare that the link provide in #1 used false records. it really is true DISINFORMATION, however you've got yet to call Patriot or FloridaVote.US for their disinformation.
ED be aware: I have not studied the article linked to, and do not have time to do so. I would not have purpose to consider, although, that the poster has posted "knowing disinformation", as can be a violation of the suggestions. they're fairly clear. read them here, see #four. You, nonetheless, have accomplished exactly that, time and once more, so far as i am concerned, and also you're virtually via doing so here on my site. --- BF
comment #26 [Permalink]... the_zapkitty said on 1/23/2008 @ 7:46 am PT...
... GaryCol spoke of...
"As an Australian observing the American version of democracy in motion, I even have some complications making an attempt to work out how the complete element works."
So do many american citizens... and they are now not encouraged to question the present state of affairs.
"... If I actually have it appropriate then every State runs its personal election, with its personal set of guidelines controlling no longer most effective how to vote but who can vote."
not precisely appropriate.
a bit of of a lecture right here, and as i am half-asleep please bear with me
There are local, county, state, and federal stages of elections.
In idea... for the most part the native ranges set rules and run the elections for all levels apart from where the native rules would conflict with suggestions set by way of the next degree up regarding that stages personal elections or with legal guidelines deploy by using one level to govern all elections under that level. as an instance the (pre-Bush administration version) federal balloting Rights Act utilized its anti-discrimination measures to all elections- native, state, and federal.
And although the passage of time tended to homogenize these changes just a little this setup turned into a part of the balancing of powers that is presupposed to make up the U. S. political system.
"...These suggestions also set how the votes are counted and by means of what formula."
sure. here's frequently, however no longer all the time, a county-huge choice.
"to this point, all I have considered is a shambles."
sure, welcome to the dazzling world of mandatory e-vote casting... yet a further nice Bush administration legacy.
After the aborted 2000 election several forces synergized to create the mess we now have nowadays.
BTW, a Dan reasonably studies program, "The difficulty With Touchscreens", offers proof that the malfunction of paper playing cards offered with the aid of Sequoia for the 2000 election can also had been deliberate with the aid of Sequoia as a way to boost its way more ecocnomic e-balloting programs... http://www.hd.web/drr227.html
but some thing the trigger, the 2000 fiasco gave definite events an excuse to supposedly reform the usa's "stricken" election equipment... and they damned close reformed it out of existence.
"a computer based balloting machine that makes use of reminiscence cards, which may also or may not work and may be switched at any time even while the vote casting is taking vicinity."
yes. And that submit-2000 advent the Election assistance commission spent its time and taxpayer funds pushing e-vote casting... and quietly making an attempt to convince any one who would listen that e-vote casting changed into now in reality necessary.
"Even the computer systems programming integrity has been referred to as into query."
Early and infrequently.
"Why now not have all of the computer systems networked"
one of the vital primary criticisms of e-vote casting is the capability of one flaw- or one bad actor- to compromise the votes of an entire precinct. It has been established that networking the machines increases the dangers exponentially... to statewide proportions. And that means countrywide repercussions.
"the most pronounced element about each of the candidates has been the sum of money they have got raised to habits the election with a great deal much less time and printing ink dedicated to the genuine policies of each and every."
it's the direct outcomes of when the courts had been paid off in an effort to permit organisations to without delay buy political influence via lobbyists beneath the aegis of the "firms are folks and funds is free speech" deception.
due to the fact then elections have been generally a matter of corporate money.
"Now that a recount has been known as for in New Hampshire, why does it take a month to count a number of thousand ballot papers."
as a result of recounts are viewed as a bothersome waste of time through all too many election officials.
"Why does a candidate who calls for the recount ought to pay for it?"
See the above reply.
"Why is it that the enterprise who controls the voting machines holds the memory cards?"
because our elections have develop into, de facto, privatized corporate affairs anywhere e-vote casting has won a foothold.
"These as well as all hand written ballot papers may still be impounded at the shut of polling compartments and held at a secure area with a paper trail of dealing with until an agreed date for the destruction a while well into the future when all events believe the influence."
a simple rule. it is going to be a legislation.
basically it is the law.
Please be aware that if New Hampshire had in fact adopted federal and state laws and laws regarding the ballots then Brad and Bev may well be spending a lot more time on the recount and e-voting issues correct.
comment #27 [Permalink]... Savantster pointed out on 1/23/2008 @ 2:sixteen pm PT...
So, lemme get this straight.. The machines kicked out a considerable number of ballots for one of 2 motives (depends on which county you have been in, apparently).. Then the "employees" just added counts into totals because, howdy, why no longer? ..... i'd believe a FULL figuring out of WHY you are adding them could be prudent, however curiously, it wasn't.
pleasing that most effective, seemingly, Democrats, and those voting for two candidates, appeared to make the "wrote in a VP", or "wrote it on the incorrect aspect of the ballot".. and, the equal people have been accused of comfortably "lying about who they voted for" on the exit polls, but most effective those americans.
From where i'm sitting, some thing is rotten in Denmark.
And, american citizens have each cause to haven't any faith in our elections, we see time and once again how screwed up they're (hell, americans 1/2 method around the world see it, too). ...
remark #28 [Permalink]... Clayton Jones noted on 1/23/2008 @ 7:24 pm PT...
i'm always amazed at the juvenile hooray for our side mentality! Pull your head out of your butt and take a deep breath of sparkling air! Now say out loud each Republicans and Democrats cheat on elections! That wasn't so unhealthy was it?! each events are in mattress with each different to show the united states right into a police state. And, at the equal time they're turning each of us towards the other! You recognize what's definitely unhappy? You! Your sorry ass is the guilty party to this Orwellan nightmare. Why? because all you do is speak speak talk, like i'm in the intervening time. guys seize your gonads and girls kick them out the door and demand they restoration our liberties. ladies remind the boys they ain't getting lucky except they convey home the 1st baron beaverbrook....or do not hassle coming domestic. No more talk....guys. Do you bear in mind the Spartans? They didn't speak lots now did they?!
remark #29 [Permalink]... Bluebear2 spoke of on 1/23/2008 @ 7:37 pm PT...
The sad certainty certainly!
remark #30 [Permalink]... the_zapkitty mentioned on 1/23/2008 @ 8:24 pm PT...
Ain't it funny how the latest sexist drumbeat goes on and on and on each time matters of private courage are discussed ?
"develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR! develop A PAIR! grow A PAIR! develop A PAIR!..."
... any one else see some issues with this?
comment #31 [Permalink]... Agent ninety nine noted on 1/23/2008 @ 8:forty one pm PT...
Sing it, Clayton!
And, you too, zap.References :